Being Marriage Material - After You are Married

Tony is joined by Ben Copeland for a candid discussion on the joys, challenges and obstacles in marriage.

Ben is the father of a six month daughter, and has been married to his wife, Emily, for about a year and a half. As a single man, Ben thought he knew all the right ways of doing things and had strong opinions on many of them. Then, he is married to a equally intelligent and driven woman who has opinions and ways of her own. 

Tony is the father of seven and has been married over 20 years. It may seem that the problems of two marriages a generation apart may have few similarities. You will hear Ben and Tony learn that there are many similarities in their experiences.

Men will be encouraged to identify a man who can support you by supporting your marriage. This relationship is very important and critical if you want to have a healthy, vibrant marriage.

Restoration Place Tallahassee


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Transcript

Podcast Intro: 0:01

Welcome to all the king's men, a ministry podcast of the Men's Ministry of restoration place Tallahassee, warning listeners to this podcast will hear authentic life changing stories from men who know Jesus and have experienced his work in their life. Be prepared to be impacted by their stories and relationship with Jesus. Here's your host, Pastor Tony Tolson.

Tony Tolson: 0:24

Good afternoon. Good day. I'm so glad that you have joined us today for this all the king's men podcast. We're thankful for all of you joining and being part of the all the king's men family, and hopefully you are enjoying this time. Make sure you're visiting our Facebook page, and you're adding in some comments and sharing so that others can participate as well. Today I've got with me Ben Copeland. Ben is our experienced pastor at restoration place. Hey, Ben, how you doing, man? Doing good. Ben is an awesome guy. He's fairly newlywed. How long have you been married?

Unknown: 0:59

Just about a year and a half.

Tony Tolson: 1:02

So you're in the middle of training right now. Yeah, that's good. That's good. And you recently had a child?

Ben Copeland: 1:08

Yes. She is six months as of yesterday. Okay.

Tony Tolson: 1:11

So you've been busy? Yeah.

Unknown: 1:14

It's been a been a fun ride, you know, having to adapt and learn a new personality with a kid in the house. And just also us just going through things as a couple within our first year marriage, but it's been awesome. I wouldn't trade it for the world. Yeah.

Tony Tolson: 1:28

Yeah. And you you found your wife in the church, didn't you? Yes.

Ben Copeland: 1:31

I've known her for probably about seven years. And we were best friends and going to the same church and how that goes.

Tony Tolson: 1:39

I had to be risky, right? Yeah. crossing that line from friend to maybe dating and what if that doesn't go? Well, and there she's your best friend. And yeah, I

Ben Copeland: 1:47

mean, it was it was one time I found I was just like, hey, look, I have feelings for you. And she's like, I don't have feelings. Just like doesn't feel like Oh, okay. All right. Cool. It's fine. But you know, I was just joking. Yeah, it was just a joke. Yeah, it was kidding. middle of July, but it's fine.

Tony Tolson: 2:04

Yeah, if you don't know, Emily, you probably don't get that. But I get her humor. And I get her transparency. She Yeah, she just says it. Yeah. So I'm sure that that was probably good training, though. Because yeah. You not only had an opportunity to kind of experience that right up front, the chase. Yeah. Where Emily? Right. Yeah. But now you probably get to experience that on an everyday basis, right. The way it is exactly.

Ben Copeland: 2:25

I feel like that's one good thing about us. It took us a while to get there. Don't get me wrong, but being able to just, you know, say how we feel about something and understand that a person's coming from love and not necessarily you know, to your safe. Yeah, attack me. Yeah.

Tony Tolson: 2:40

Yeah. Yeah, I found Renee in the church to her. I would say she chased after me.

Unknown: 2:46

I will say the same thing to her. I want to get beat up. So yeah, well, you

Tony Tolson: 2:49

know, Renee doesn't listen to this very often. So, you know, I tell her, it's for men, so she'd listen, it's about speaking the same language. Right. Right. Right. It was definitely fun, that courtship period, getting to know each other. I think very similarly, your wife and my wife are both very driven women. They're not they're not the kind of women are just looking for men to do everything for them. Yeah, I mean, Renee told me early on like, look, I want you in my life. And when I'm done with you, I will kick you to the curb. That was what she told me during our I thought, wow, that's not a promising future. Right, right. 22 years later, we're probably okay. But she was very upfront and forward. And she's like, I don't need you. I just want you. I don't need you to do anything. For me. I'm capable of doing anything, everything on my own. Yeah, she had been a single mom. And so she truly had been capable. I think that was interesting. I think a lot of understanding marriage is a lot about giving up your own will. Yeah, a little bit and looking what's the best interest for the other person? Right. I think the other thing we do in marriage is we focus on things that don't really matter, right? We're gonna talk about that a little bit. But first, I want to kind of introduce kind of the concept here. You know, Ben and I are on opposite ends of the marriage spectrum, like, like, I'm the old guy here. I don't know how that happened. I blinked and I'm the old guy. And Ben's definitely the young hip guy, you know, he can still wear the skinny jeans, not that I could ever wear them in public. You know, he's cool. And all that and but he's young, and he's on a on the beginnings phases of his life. But we have a lot of things in common. One of the things that's changed and an economist said, the biggest change in the world today is that the young don't learn from the old. In fact, they teach the old about the world today. But in the church that should be different. Like we should be able to lean on each other shouldn't be only that the young learn from the old but vice versa as well. We learn from each other for sure. And I think one of the things that we want to make sure we instill in men is that you should have an older mentor, an older brother in Christ that you can go to and go Is this normal? 100% right because Why do it by yourself? Yeah, what I want to do real quick pastor sent me something today that I just thought was just perfect. A little bit of humor here. But I think you and I both experienced this. So listen to this. I don't take no crap from

Unknown: 5:06

anybody else but you. I wear the pants around here when I finished with your laundry.

Tony Tolson: 5:13

Because I'm a guy you don't want to fight. When I say jump, you say Yeah, right? No matter the outcome. He's the man. What I say goes around here right out the window. And I don't want to hear a lot of whining. So I'll shut up. The sooner you learn who's bossed around here? The sooner you can give me my orders around here, but pretty much describes it. Right, right, man. Yeah, I mean, faster. And I joke about that, because both of our wives come across very sweet and passive, but anything but Right. And I probably for you as well. Right. Yeah.

Ben Copeland: 5:59

I mean, I think I've learned very early on that when I'm a very joking person. So I'll, you know, make jokes. I'll make these slight remarks. And we look at me like yeah, that's, that's not that's not it. That's not how it's gonna roll. We're not We're not playing a game today. Like, this is where we're gonna do it. Okay, yeah, you're right. Sorry.

Tony Tolson: 6:15

Right. Right. It's funny if she wants it to be exact. Right. And it's not funny. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So what is the thing that you have learned the most about you from being married?

Unknown: 6:26

I would say the one thing I struggle with, and I don't want to say I always struggle with it, because I don't want to put anything on me like that. But I am a perfectionist and a control freak. So the thing the things I struggle with, the things I have to deal with, is being able to be okay, with how we how she does things. So when we first came into the marriage, you know, I'm like a, I like my laundry with this much soap in it this, you know, these fragrance boosters and needs to have borax and this in there. And, you know, no softeners but do this right here. So it can come out and not smell like water. That's my that's my biggest thing. And she's like, there's no need for all of that. And I'm like, Whoa, that's how I wash my clothes. So that's how everybody's getting a closed wash. And she's like, Yeah, no, not doing that. Like, what's the point? Well, that's just how I like to do it. Well, I don't want it to do that. So let's meet in the middle. And so it's different things like that learning how to compromise. That's the biggest thing. Because, yeah, a lot of times, like, like I said, like, it's it's certain things I've been set on, because that's how I operate. But I don't you don't never take the other person into consideration. Because it's like, well, maybe they have another idea to do that. Or, you know, hey, you shouldn't put that much laundry detergent in your clothes, because it's not even cleaning them, you know, like you learn stuff like that. But I would say being able to surrender control and being okay with somebody else doing their way or being able to find that middle ground to where we're both in agreement of how we're going to operate or how we're going to do something. That's been the biggest thing for me. You know, we're not perfect. We're not there yet. But that's, it's a it's been a definite learning curve in the last year and a half.

Tony Tolson: 8:00

So you've learned a little bit about releasing control. Correct? Right. Correct. And it's been okay. It's been okay, you're closer. You're clean? Exactly. Yeah, I don't I don't smell bad. I'm not sniffing you. But I mean, I don't I don't know what water smells like. But I think it's probably not like water. Right. I think the biggest thing I learned was that I had to stop thinking course. You know, I wasn't, I was in my 20s, mid 20s 27. I think we got married. I remember thinking that what I knew, everybody knew, right? This foundational set of truths that I thought were foundational. And so that kind of this, it doesn't make sense. Now when I look back on it, but I assumed that she would have known everything that I knew and believed like, like I believed, yeah. And I had to learn quick, there were a lot of ways to think about things. And that was not going to play out. Yeah. And my my kids, when we got married, we she had three i two sets, five kids. So there's already more kids in there are adults. So it was truly us against them. Right. Like we had to be we had to be tied at the hip, right? Tied in our opinions, at least publicly when I say publicly outside of the bedroom. Correct. So if we had a problem, we would retreat to the bedroom, because we wouldn't let the kids see the light between us because then they could wedge between us, you know, to kind of kind of split and write and conquer, so to speak. Not that our kids were evil, but they were children. Right. And they naturally want to get their way. Right. So they had to learn about that. And I think that was another thing that was different for us than you have to experience because we had to learn how to co parent with and trust each other with each other with each other's kid, right? Yeah. And you guys are navigating, like how to trust each other with your child. Right? But there's a natural inclination to believe that you both have the best at heart,

Ben Copeland: 9:48

correct. I mean, it took it probably took me the first month of my daughter's life. To like stop asking, can I take her places? Like, Hey, babe, I'm gonna go to the church or I'm gonna go to this So really quick, is it cool? If I take Ellie with me? And she's like, why are you asking? I don't care. Like, I'm just like, this is your kid. Right? But it like we don't. That's her mother. You know, I mean, like, she birthed her, like she went through that process. So it's just like, that's a delicate being that she created kind of thing. Like, you know, we had, you know, we were part of the process, but you know what I mean? Oh, my beginning right? At the beginning, like she made that thing, you know, and just like, that's yours. I don't want to mess anything up. So I get that completely.

Tony Tolson: 10:31

Conflict. I mean, you guys have probably had some conflict. So without giving away the farm, so to speak, right? What area of conflict have you had? Like, I don't necessarily want you to mention the topic unless it's generic enough. Because I don't want to get in trouble when you go home. Right.

Unknown: 10:48

I like that. I like my house.

Tony Tolson: 10:49

Yeah. So is there a particular area?

Ben Copeland: 10:53

Um, I would say, more or less the the conflict is more priorities. That's something that I'm still trying to learn on just being completely transparent. There's a lot of times where you think, Okay, I gotta get this done. I gotta get this done. I gotta get this done. Uh, you abandon your house, you abandon your daughter, you know, those things that you think are important. I've had to learn and I'm still learning. I'm not saying I'm already there. 100%. But I'm learning to say, okay, hey, I gotta go home, or I gotta do this. That's the biggest thing, because there's been many times where I'm just trying to work late to get something done. And you know, I'm missing out on important detail at home, or I'm missing out on something dinner, whatever it is, and taking those things for granted. And I don't want to ever look back and say, I missed these key moments, because I was worried about, you know, making sure the chords were straight. Oh, yeah, exactly. Like, there was no more crooked chords and the, you know, the tracks, were ready in the run sheets. Were ready. Like, all that kind of stuff. Just being able to have to tell myself sometimes, okay, hey, look, this is gonna be here tomorrow, you know, just step back. That's the biggest thing I get in trouble for it as that's what I'm gonna say. Because, like I said, I just, I lose focus. And it's easy to do that when you're just a perfectionist, and you want to control everything and make sure everything's good. You lose sight of the important things, right? Wasting time on that stuff. So

Tony Tolson: 12:13

right and now you have a being who literally can't care for herself. Correct. You married and she was fully capable of living without you. And then you went and created a person that can do nothing without one of you at least there. And so that's the challenge. Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it was different because I had gotten the priority thing down with the children. I had water under the bridge and my paths were in relationships that, you know, that had failed over my life. And so I much like we talked about with Glenn on the last podcast, you know, he had his he had his baggage, he had his wounds. And for me, I I didn't trust Yeah, like, I trusted her. And I loved her. But there was still a, I had to protect me. Were meanwhile, she's trying to protect me. Yeah. So we have conflict over who's protecting me. Right, right, and how we're gonna protect me. Right. So I had a lack of transparency, which often came across like deceitfulness because I just wasn't saying everything. Yeah, I think men is, as a rule, we're good at not telling everything. As I say, I struggle with that same thing. Yeah. Yeah. And that man, women sniff that stuff out.

Ben Copeland: 13:19

There's something wrong with you not saying anything. Now. I'm good. I'm straight. I promise you, right. Now you're not

Tony Tolson: 13:24

right. Or you tell, you know, three quarters of the story, you're like, I don't need another rest of the details. And they're like, well, there's more to that story. Yeah. And then you're like, No, no, no. But that No, no, that was a lie. Really? Right. But you're saying, Well, I just either you're trying to protect them. Because you know, those details are going to maybe somebody said something that would have hurt their feelings? Or more importantly, you might get in trouble for those details. Yes, yes. I've learned as I've gotten older in marriage, that it's better just to go ahead and get in trouble for a minute. And then laugh about it together. Correct, then to hide it? And let them find out in a later conversation that I didn't tell them to tell her the rest of it. Right. Right. Because that is a lot more painful. It is like mama can put the hurt on me

Ben Copeland: 14:03

in the fact that you're also having to relive that moment again. Yes. And if it's a really horrible thing that you are trying to suppress, it's worse because now you have to live with the what you're afraid of, and then going through that trauma of them, you know, maybe not trusting you because you couldn't be honest. So yeah, I can agree to that. That that was the thing for me in the top part of our marriage is just like, Okay, this happened, this happened. And this that and that are gonna push this other part of the story to the side, and then it comes up when I'm like, do you remember when I told you about this? And she's like, No,

Tony Tolson: 14:35

what are you talking about? I'm

Ben Copeland: 14:36

like, oh, yeah, so it's like there's that conflict that you're talking about again? Because it's like well, what can you just tell me that in the beginning I didn't want you to think any you know any different of me was like um, she's thinking different than me now because I couldn't be honest with her so right if I can't be honest and a little then what else am I not gonna be honest with you trust me with finances, the cars all this stuff, you know, having a house was, if I can't be transparent with her about, you know, a lie or something that went wrong, then why should she trust me with our other things are heart? Yeah, her heart, especially her heart.

Tony Tolson: 15:12

Yeah. And that I mean, there's nothing that closes down a woman's heart like, distrust, to see to see. Or even just the sense that you're not being completely honest and how you feel about something even, they often want to hear how you feel. And all you want to do is give details about what you did, but want to know your heart. It's hard for us to get down to that, right. You know, I used to joke that with Renee, really, all I really want in life is a sandwich and to have sex like those two things, not necessarily in that order. But sometimes. Those are the things that will make me happy. And then I as I got older, it was a recliner with a remote a sandwich and sex, those four things would then make me happy, right? As we learn about ourselves and our marriage, the more hopefully you will learn like I did just to be your authentic self and just rip the band aid off, right? And those shocking things that you think oh, my gosh, she should never hear from me, it's best just to let them hear it right? In a safe space. Not in front of like a whole bunch of friends. But exactly like, my wife will tell you that there are parts of me that are highly irreverent and inappropriate. That's her favorite word. And, but we have found that we can be inappropriate in our bedroom. Not sinful. Right, right. But But where people might go, Hmm, why would Pastor Tony ever say that word? Right, you know? Or in that way? Yeah. Well, sometimes you just have to get your feelings out. Yeah. And we've learned to feelings are not facts and facts are not always feeling correct. So you got to get it out. And especially for men, because we're taught to never really deal with our emotions. Yes,

Ben Copeland: 16:56

I was gonna say like, my biggest thing for me, Emily will say, Hey, this is how I feel. And I'm like, No, that's not true. I'm not doing that. And it's like, I'm not telling you. I'm not saying this is what you're doing. I'm telling you how I feel. And we're our immediate response is to when someone tells us about their feelings that they that, you know, they may be trying to put onto us, or they you were perceiving that they're trying to tell us that that's what we're doing to them. We get defensive. Yeah,

Tony Tolson: 17:22

absolutely. And that defensiveness puts up a wall, like so fast

Ben Copeland: 17:26

immediately, because it's like, okay, if you can't respect my feelings, or just even listen to what I have to say, then I don't want to communicate to you. And then that's a whole nother problem. So,

Tony Tolson: 17:34

yeah, I've done a lot of marriage counseling over the years. And that's one of the things that I see the most is the man and the woman will both be saying something. And they both hear through their phone, their own filters. And they haven't really heard what the other person said at all. Yeah. And so their walls are going up, because they're hearing what they think the other person is saying through their wounding or through their past experience. Maybe with a previous spouse or boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. Or maybe even a parent, right? That's the challenge of marriage is that you've got to leave all that at the door, right? And come in, like you did in that dating relationship where you know, you're both seeking after each other, you're choosing each other. And you choose each other every day. I say love is a choice. It's not a feeling exactly. I choose to love her. And I get to love Rene, but I choose to love Rene, there's parts of her and I don't know which which parts they are because I haven't found them yet, but I know they're not lovable. I mean, she's pretty amazing, right? But she could list off a whole bunch for me. Yeah. Yeah, like, okay. So in Genesis chapter two, it says, Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and they become one flesh.

Ben Copeland: 18:42

That's so funny. I was just about to bring up a joke. I always make leave and clean. That's how that's how I always say that. Yes. Like that's, that's the biggest thing that I feel like, especially people are the younger generation when they get married. You know, the mom was boys. They're like, Oh, I'm I'm always gonna raffle My mom always gonna listen to my mom, like, Whatever she says. And even next thing you know, she's telling you what you need to do what your wife and how you need to operate your house. And when she comes over to visit, she's cleaning everything. Thank God, I don't have to deal with that. But like, you know, as far as my mom, like, she respects our space, but it's just like, that's the biggest thing. And I always tell people you leave and clean to your wife or your husband, whatever it looks like you leave and clean do not allow outside perspectives. Allow your past don't allow people who think they have an opinion on how relationships should go because their social media guru, like whatever it looks like don't allow them to build up walls or build up this trust in your house. Just leave and clean. Leave those things behind. So

Tony Tolson: 19:41

anybody who is not pro your marriage should not be your friend. Exactly. You just got to eradicate it. I don't care how long they've been your buddy has your sister you let them people go because they will. They don't I don't think people mean to do it. I think it's misguided but they will sow seeds of discord and The other thing I would say is you got to be careful who you share your crap with, right? Like, I have one person on the planet, and I'll share my crap with Yeah. And

Ben Copeland: 20:08

like you said, they don't realize that they're giving you misguided information. Because, you know, some people just thought this is how a relationship would be, you know, with all the label and culture and the, you know, gender roles and all this kind of stuff that people allow to get in the way of God's word, well, hey, you don't need the man to go out and get most of the money or he doesn't snipe you guys both can work you can provide which is true. But there's just certain things that when you're talking to somebody, especially about your personal things, which I had to learn very early on, because I got my buddies that I want to talk to and get different perspectives. But it's just like, two things I've learned over the last like, four months, this is very recent, that one, like you said, having that one person you can talk to, that is pro your marriage, that person that you can go to and get information from. And even they may not have all the answers, but you you know, that's a safe space, and your business isn't gonna get shared, and also to it being with the person of the same gender. So if you are a man, yes, sharing your information with the man, I'm going to repeat that, again, share your information with the man, the biggest mistake that people make is having their female friend or the female coworker that they share their business with, and let too much of their marriage or information that they have going on out. And that's dangerous. It's very dangerous. Because God forbid that females like, oh, I can save the day. Now you got a whole nother problem. Yeah, you do. And that's called murder charges.

Tony Tolson: 21:35

Yes, it is. There's a couple of reasons for that. First of all, it's, you know, for Christians, we don't want to ever look like we've done some wish. Exactly. And, you know, we've had examples of ministers and leaders that have had to step down for what looks like an emotional affair means nonsexual, but oversharing. Right. Right. So we've seen a lot of that lately in the news. But also women don't think like men, right? So yes, they can be a good confidant, and they can absorb and share back what they think. But it's not like a man. And the other thing that I think Brian does for me is I'll share some of my stupid his thoughts. Right? And you'll say you don't want to say that to Renee. Yes, you need to think about that before you say it to Renee. Yeah, but this is what I think I need to say, nope, nope, I'm telling you, that is a bad idea. Yeah. Now, she never tells me I shouldn't tell Renee. But he tells me I should make sure I get my thoughts together. Like, man, we have crazy ideas. And if we take every crazy idea we have to our wives, they will, they will think we're unstable. Right, because we can have some crazy ideas, and they need to know that they're going to have a home to live in, their children are going to be taken care of. And that doesn't mean we don't take risks. We take calculated risks. And when we ready to make a move or ready to talk about making a move, we should have our stuff together that if it's going to be earth shaking, we shouldn't we shouldn't go in constantly rock our wives world with some kind of new scheme. We've got exactly a new multilevel marketing thing. We're going to invest in this exactly. Yeah, we probably need to taper that, you know, maybe more research, yeah, do more research. But the proverb says He who finds a good wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord. And I think we both have done that. But you know, let's talk to the men out there who are struggling, like they came into their relationship. They were in love, or she was so beautiful, right? And then they got married, and they rolled over and like what happened? Like, she's not so sweet anymore. I'm not feeling so loving anymore. I know you're young in marriage, but you're not young in the Lord. So what would you say to some men that are struggling? Like, you know, they can align with some of the things we're thinking but they're stuck. What what kind of things would you recommend?

Ben Copeland: 23:51

I think the best thing to do in that moment, because as soon as something like that happens, there, believe it or not, I've had to deal with that is I start looking at the person like What's their problem? What's the problem? Like, why why she been that way? And I never look inward. I've never said okay, okay, what are the things that I could be doing better? Am I not communicating? Am I not following through is something left in the sink still, that I was asked to go do? Or like, you know, like, I start looking around to see, okay, what what is something that I could be doing? How could I be communicating, you know, to make her feel better, or to make her feel loved? Because nine times out of 10 is something so small, like you didn't communicate this or you haven't really talked to me or we haven't really, you know, just had time to ourselves, I yield back to the priorities. And you know, I just feel distant, you know, the, I feel like the worst thing Emily and I had to deal with is so right. And we got married August 21 2021. We had to we both started new jobs. So she was promoted to As an associate manager, I got a job at the state of Florida here. And we, she had to go to training. So she went to Tennessee for a week. And then she lived in Pensacola for three months. Wow. Right? Hurt. So we were in our new house, you know, everything we're probably gathered for like, three weeks, and then she's gone. Like, okay, this is great. And in that time, you know, I will drop down on the weekend to Pensacola if I could, or something like that. But um, you know, turning right back around for Sunday, you know, so if we really didn't have that time, so kind of got the, the syndrome, what we call like, roommates. Yeah, were when it was we finally came home. Yeah, we're excited to see each other, but we haven't talked them so long. And these, you know, different things like that. We haven't physically been with each other. We kind of get like this roommate syndrome, where we're just, you know, checking in to make sure there anything you need from store this on that matter how you doing today. And you know, kind of treating like friends and not necessarily communicating as lovers. And there's one flush. Exactly. And we, we we look back on it now, you know, laugh about it, because in that time, we lost her brother right after she came back from training. So that was another portion where we had to deal with that we that was the day she got back. And then we got that news. And so we went from, you know, newlyweds to grieving. And then after that, we were having a kid in February, you know, we just found out we were expecting so a lot of life change. It was a lot of life changes and a lot of stuff that we had to unpack in that we're still unpacking. And so it was very hard for me to one, especially in the loss of her brother to be selfish and say, Okay, well, I haven't my needs have been met and so long. And I really had a long conversation with God, like, please help me not be that guy. Like, please help me not put myself on upfront on the pedestal because I have needs Yes, she's dealing with something. But I still need to know my needs and still need to be met. I still need attention. I asked her one day, I think we were we were I want to say it was right after the service or something like that. And a couple of months after and I said, I said hey, I'm sorry, if I've, you know, you know, been kind of getting in the way or you know, just been kind of selfish. I don't remember what I just just brought it up, not the test of water or anything, but I just just brought it up out of Jane concern. And she's like, No, you you've been really great to me during this time. Like you haven't complained you haven't wanted your way you've just been here you've supported me. And that was kind of like, okay, good. That's

Tony Tolson: 27:36

good. Did that. Because now what you were trying to do?

Ben Copeland: 27:39

That's not what I was thinking exactly. So like, I let my you know, my judgment get clouded in I sometimes it was blinders. But it's it was it was great to have that reassurance that through that entire process of her trying to cultivate a new job, and then also deal with the loss of her brother, that I was there for her. And I was able to give her what she needed. So that was that was great.

Tony Tolson: 28:00

If you want to be treated differently, you often have to be different. Yeah, your job is just to do different. So you know, you've got to set the tone sometimes Yeah. Especially as the spiritual leader in the home, we need to be setting those tone in those times and making sure that we set the expectation, I'll tell you, the thing that I would recommend the man is, like you said, get that get that man that you can talk to make sure you cultivate that relationship. Keep that relationship close. Because and let the man know, that's what you need. Like, you see that in in in him and you would like to be him to be a confidant for your right for your marriage. Because you're you know, he's Pro, your wife, pro your marriage or your relationship or a relationship with God. He's able to be authentic and tell you speak truth to you. I mean, that's hard, like, so you need somebody to say something to you. That's hard to hear, right? I'll tell you, I called Brian one time and I said, you know, I'm feeling this and this and this. And I was upset. And he's like, is that godly with everything you're feeling? Right? Oh, I don't look, you're supposed to get on my side. Exactly. And he's like, no, no, it's not my job here. Right? Like, I could do that. But that's not my role here today. My role here today is to say like, no, no, you better back up and look in the mirror like, Yeah,

Ben Copeland: 29:13

I agree. I feel like that's the biggest like mistake we make as men to we try to find somebody to hold us accountable. I'm putting a bunch of years, hold up, hold us accountable. And we get someone that's lateral. We find somebody that's gonna hype us up. And I'm like, Man, I cannot believe my wife and I did this, this, that and the 30 like, bro, you tell why you feel? And it's like, no, I need somebody that's like, Oh, don't stop. Like, did you actually communicate what you wanted? Right? Well, I said, No, you didn't communicate. You told her what you wanted. And it wasn't clear.

Tony Tolson: 29:43

You know? I think the problem man, we forget that we need to keep dating them right? If we just treat them like we're continuing to date them. We won't be so reactive. Right? You know that we get spoiled. These women they marry us and we know we look in the mirror we know all the Falls you like God

Ben Copeland: 30:00

I'm sorry, I apologize every day. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Yeah,

Tony Tolson: 30:03

I'm like, I thought we're gonna same thing I might look you got you got the really the poor end of the deal on. You know the truth is is they know they're marrying a man which is basically a glorified boy. Right, right. I mean, she's telling me for years I could I was 30 like I was 13. And she said I was 14 Apparently I stuck at 14. You know, I felt like that was great, cuz it was growth from 13 to 14 Solid. Yeah, that was a years to get there. She doesn't use the teenage thing anymore, because it would be silly because I'm old older now. But she you know, she does know that she's married to basically a human being who's still probably looks in the mirror and thinks of himself as a very young man. Yeah. That all the stuff that comes with that, right. I will tell you that the more I look at, how can I date her? How can I meet her needs? The more she meets mine? Yeah. And it's been magical. Yeah, even romance. The more I focus on the romance that she wants, the more the romance will call it that I want, which is less of the romance and more of the action, right? If I meet her needs, she meets mine like twofold. Yeah, like, it's crazy. But those are the things that I've learned over the years that nobody could have told me that maybe I would have heard it, but I hope somebody out there will hear what I'm saying. If you need something, meet the need of your spouse first, without the expectation of the receiving of receiving back, do it altruistically, meaning without any recompense without any expectation without any kind of reciprocity. Really just focus on meeting the need loving that person, when they see that women are good at sniffing out authenticity. When they see that they naturally return it. They're designed that way. Yeah, God. Yeah. In when I tapped into that single truth, our marriage just blossomed. Yeah. And it wasn't that I, like heard it somewhere and thought, Oh, I'm gonna practice this and see, like, I stumbled upon it. And then I like read a couple of books and listen to a couple of older guys. And they said that to me. And I'm like, Where were you like five years five or 10 years ago, right where we hit, I wouldn't say a law. But we had five kids adopted two kids, we had seven children. One point we had three in college. I've always had multiple jobs, you've always had multiple jobs. And I'm a very driven person. I like to meet goals. I like to have goals, all those things. And Renee knows that about me. She loves that about me. She knows she's never going to be homeless, she's always going to have what she needs. Yeah, virtually everything she wants, because I'm going to give her everything I can in my life, I'm going to pour out everything I have for her. But in the area of meeting the emotional needs, I would often fall away from that, yeah, I'd be too tired. And the emotional needs for her are met through loading the dishwasher. Lord Jesus, who wants to do that, right. And you have to load the dishwasher in this house according to Rene's method of loading the dishwasher, which basically means you pre wash the dishes with soap and water rinse them, where if you had someone just handled to to dry them, you could put them in the cabinet. But now we put them in the dishwasher and put more soap on them. Yep, yep, that's my wife the same way. Right? So I don't understand that. But if I don't do it that way, I have not met her knee. Exactly. And she will come back behind me to see if I pre wrenched Yeah, well, he calls a pre rinse. It's really pre washed Exactly. I'm just saying the more we as men tap into these age old principles that are biblical principles that when we love as Christ loved us, that's what he says, love your wife, as Christ loved the church. That's

Ben Copeland: 33:39

the scripture I pulled up next. That's Ephesians 525. For it says, for husbands. This means love your wife, just as Christ loved the church. He gave his life for her.

Tony Tolson: 33:53

That's selfless love to give your life for her. Which means his first focus was the church. Right? Our first focus has to be our spouse, right? So we have to put everything else below that. That's everything else. That's our jobs. That's our hobbies, our children, right? All of that. I mean, it's it seems counter like people because our culture worships children, right? But and family, but we need to make sure our spouse our wife knows that they're number one. Exactly. I think we could talk about this all night. But the key is, you know, men we are here. There's there's two guys other opposite ends of the spectrum with very similar life experience and a lot of ways. Were two brothers in Christ who are living through being married, growing older, having responsibilities in the church responsibilities at work, relationships, friendships, self goals of our own that are outside of all of those things. You know, we have all that and we're here so if you need somebody To talk to pastor Ben's a great one to talk to pastor Ben's probably better at the topic of how you might get a wife, because it's been a long time since I've done that, as far as marital advice and getting in and just having someone to talk to Ben and I would be more than willing to help anybody. And if we can't help, we will direct you to somebody who can we can help everybody

Unknown: 35:20

resources out there to help with that kind of stuff. So,

Tony Tolson: 35:23

absolutely, and will stand behind you and will stand with you. Yes, but what we'll never do is side with you. Right, separate from your marriage at that's

Ben Copeland: 35:30

a funny thing. Early on, Emily, I was still dating, and I would talk to Nick and he's the couple's pastor at our church. And there's one thing he would always say, because he said the biggest thing he dealt with when he would counsel people or just, you know, be talking to somebody, the female would always say, he just does this, and he just does that. And bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, and he said, Hey, I'm gonna stop you right there. I'm not going to talk bad about your man with you. So if that's what you expected, you got the wrong guy. Because there's something about that person, you pick them, you chose them, there's something about them that you love. So that's what I want you to think about when you're trying to fix this, not necessarily coming from the approach of just attack and just that, that the I love you. And I want to fix this. That's the approach I want to come from. I don't want to come from a stance of you do this all the time. That makes me so mad, and I don't ever think you're going to change because then you're gonna make that effect one day. Yeah. So it's just like, you have to look at it from the approach of at one point, we were head over heels for each other. We're at a crossroad right now. I still love you. Nothing's changed about that. But let's fix this. So

Tony Tolson: 36:38

that's where love becomes a decision. Right? And long term love has to be a choice. Yeah. If you don't ever get that to that place with your children, you you're not watching them close enough. Right. As our kids got older, we certainly came to the place where a couple of them were like they were hard to love. Yeah, we chose every day to love them. And to love them through that circumstance, that difficulty. And through the end, it paid off. Yeah, but it was hard. It's no different with your spouse. Right. I think the difference is with with women, I think they have to choose to love us a lot more than we have to choose to love them. Yeah. But when life gets hard, do not do it alone. Right. That's the key. That's the key. Well, guys, thank you again for listening. Ben, thank you for joining today. And yeah, it's always good. And we look forward to more conversations like this. So have a great evening everyone. Make sure you share the podcast with others, especially if you know some men who are struggling, let them know they're not alone. And we will talk to you next time.

Podcast Outro: 37:39

Thank you for joining us today on all the king's men. Please share, subscribe and like the podcast anytime you can to contact Pastor Tony email Tony at my rpt.org He would love to connect with you. On behalf of Pastor Tony and all of us at restoration place. Have a great week and we will see you next time.