All the Kings Men
Being a man of character with Christian values is a challenge in world that has lost its way. All the Kings Men is a podcast for men who want to leave a Godly legacy. Weekly guests share their stories of how God made them victorious over life's struggles. All the Kings Men is a ministry podcast of Restoration Place. Join our Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090682981273!
All the Kings Men
Testament of a Transformed Life: From Witchcraft to Faith
Imagine growing up with a traditional Jewish background only to delve into a world of witchcraft as a teenager. That's just the beginning of the extraordinary journey our guest, Brett Klein embarked on, a riveting journey that spans over three decades. Brett's story is not just a personal biography, but a stark reminder of the dangers lurking in the exploration of forces beyond human understanding, and yet, a testament to the possibility of redemption through faith in God.
Our conversation takes a fascinating twist as Brett recounts a divine intervention that significantly altered the course of his life. A looming 132-month sentence in a federal courtroom was inexplicably shortened, marking a turning point leading him to embark on a spiritual journey that transformed him beyond recognition. This journey started in the confines of a prison and led him to a profound faith in God and a newfound purpose in life - discipleship.
In the later part of our conversation, Brett reveals how his transformation turned him into a mentor among his prison peers and how it shaped his understanding of humility and compassion. His perspective on obedience, fellowship, and church involvement as integral parts of the discipleship process serves as an inspiration for all. Brett's story is a powerful reminder that it's never too late to embrace faith and seek redemption, and a testament to the transformative power of God's love. Join us as we unravel this extraordinary account of Brett's journey from witchcraft to Christianity.
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Welcome to All the King's Men, a ministry podcast of the Men's Ministry of Restoration Place, tallahassee. Warning listeners to this podcast will hear authentic, life-changing stories from men who know Jesus and have experienced His work in their life. He prepared to be impacted by their stories and relationship with Jesus. Here is your host, pastor Tony Tolson.
Speaker 2:Good afternoon, good day and welcome again to All the King's Men. We're so glad you chose to spend some time with us today, and we have just an amazing guest today with us. His name is Brett Klein and he has just a crazy background where he spent many years away from God and he found God in one of the most amazing ways, and we're going to hear his testimony today to see just how far God will reach and how far God will go for any of us, and so I want to welcome you today, Brett. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you for having me, Tony.
Speaker 2:So Brett came to our ministry at Restoration Place. How long ago was that Brett?
Speaker 3:About eight months ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll give you a chance to kind of tell your story in just a minute and just so you know, I'll kind of interject here and there kind of conversational. But you know, when Brett first came to the church, you know we didn't know him. We should have known him and he'll talk a little bit about that. He had reached out to us prior. But I'll tell you that when Brett came and he got engaged, he jumped in both feet and he is not only known but loved because of who he is and who he belongs to.
Speaker 2:It's so clear that, brett, you are a follower of Jesus and so in love with him. So thank you for today and what you're going to be sharing. So, brett, you know you shared with me and so many others along your path before as you got here to Restoration, and you know all the different places you've been. You've shared the story about how God drew you back to himself and just flew open the doors of heaven, so to speak. Will you kind of give us an intro to you know your younger life and where you came from, and that type of thing.
Speaker 3:Sure, I come from a family that was. My mother and father were separated when I was three and divorced when I was five. I've got an older brother, two years older than myself, and we grew up in a significantly upper middle class neighborhood just outside of New York City. I was raised Jewish. I had my bar mitzvah at the age of 13 and then had walked away from that belief because it just wasn't for me, and then I began delving very deeply into witchcraft by the age of 17, and that continued for almost 30 years.
Speaker 2:I think you're the very first person I've ever talked to on this podcast who's delved into witchcraft, so tell us what that means.
Speaker 3:Well, the following the pagan path with the belief and understanding that it is the world's oldest religion, that it was around before Christianity.
Speaker 3:Therefore Christianity was built off of paganism which I now am seeing is not quite the truth.
Speaker 3:But with most of the pagan in which got books that you'll read, they insist that they are the world's oldest religion and that all the religions were built off of them, and so they find a level of comfort that you can easily believe into what you're reading and what you're hearing and what you're practicing. And it's a very complicated belief system that is able to kind of bring you. You're told that you have power basically over the universe when you're practicing paganism and witchcraft and that if you harness these energies, you have the ability to create your everyday and your future based on the power and the energy that you put into what it is you're practicing. So it's a very self-absorbed belief system, I think, and it really is centered around having power and control that really belongs to the one true God. So when you're practicing witchcraft, you're insisting that you can take that away from him and that you can harness that power, and that's not the truth, that's the furthest from the absolute truth.
Speaker 2:And so you know, when we think of witchcraft those of us that have not been in your shoes and walked in your shoes, you know most of us have views of witchcraft that are probably very much Hollywood based and maybe mythology based. So can you tell us what the difference is between, maybe, what some of us have experienced through movies and media and what it was really like for you?
Speaker 3:I think for me. You know, I struggled with having power and control issues most of my life. I always felt the need to be in control and have power over others. I was always self-absorbed for most of my young life and adult life. So until Jesus showed up, that didn't really change. So for me, having the beliefs that I could harness these powers of the universe and that I can control the outcomes of situations, it was a comfort level that I just wanted to stay in. You know, sometimes when we're really comfortable, we don't want to do anything different. So that's why it went on for so many years because I was just. I was comfortable with the fact that I was in control of my here and now and my future, or at least I had the belief that I was.
Speaker 3:So for me personally, I got very heavily involved in reading tarot, and tarot reading is a very complicated and difficult thing to learn.
Speaker 3:I took me several years of studying and I mean hardcore hours and hours and hours of hitting the books to try and understand how tarot spreads can speak to other people, and I think you know part of it too is that there's like a mystical element that kind of goes along with witchcraft that's very alluring to people, you know.
Speaker 3:People are pretty much drawn to it because there's an air of mystery about it. You know, and I think that as human beings we can be drawn to mysterious things that we don't understand, but at the end of the day it's not real. There's nothing realistic about it, other than the fact that you're harnessing and manipulating energies that you have no business messing with because they belong to God. So it's dangerous, it's sinful and it's something you really want to stay away from. I mean, the Bible tells us to stay away from. You know witchcraft and fortune telling and things of that nature, so it can be dangerous. So I don't think I knew what I was getting into at the time and although I never had any strange encounters that would have scared me away from it, the reality is that it didn't really fill the void that I thought it was filling for so many years.
Speaker 2:So it was less onerous. You know you weren't over a cauldron, you know mixing things together wearing a black robe. It was more about usurping control over things in a way that obviously is very pagan, right? It's not I mean. Opposite of God controls all things. Right, it's I control all things. It was more. Let me just. Let me just correct me if I'm wrong. You would look you would have been more mainstream than than what we would have seen in a movie. Like you're not. You wouldn't have looked like you were an evil person.
Speaker 3:Oh no, not at all. I mean, facial piercings aside and all that tattoos I didn't look like your regular everyday person, but I didn't want to portray that look. Anyway, I always tried to stand out from mainstream society as something different. I just was going down the wrong path with that, right.
Speaker 2:And I, just when you say witchcraft, I think it brings up, you know, images that are different than what what we actually know to be true. You know, those of us that are in ministry and those of us that have experienced it like yourself, you know, it's not what you see on TV. It's not, it's not the horror films. It's different than that. It's maybe even more deceiving and dangerous than that. Would you agree?
Speaker 3:Absolutely, absolutely, you'll have a percent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you went through a phase where you were obviously digging deep into that. Where did that lead?
Speaker 3:It led me into darker and darker corners. You know, it was one rabbit hole that I fell into that I really couldn't get out of, and I'd fall into a lot of rabbit holes, and Some are easier to find freedom from and some will hold you down a little bit longer than you really intended to go. But once Jesus shows up, you find freedom from all of these rabbit holes, and all these voids that I've been trying to fill my whole life have been filled and sealed. So it's a blessing to be a Christian man now. I can tell you that.
Speaker 2:And you shared with me that some of those rabbit holes drugs and depression. Does that cover a couple of them?
Speaker 3:Drugs and anxiety. I know our stuff about depression so I had very high anxiety where a psychologist was writing me prescriptions for Xanax and I was on it for many, many years and I haven't taken Xanax in over seven years and I have no anxiety anymore. I've been delivered from drug addiction, from anxiety, from many things.
Speaker 2:When you say delivered, you mean it was gone.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's the only thing it could have been. It was gone.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like you went through a 12-step program for 42 years and you overcame it. You had a moment where God delivered you. Is that? Am I reflecting that right?
Speaker 3:100%. I've been in over nine different inpatient and outpatient rehabilitation centers to get clean from drugs and alcohol and for over 30 years I've been unable to get free of that addiction. Jesus showed up and I haven't touched a drink or a drug in over six years and I've never felt better about it. And I know I don't have any desire to drill near any of it. And that's just the thing. The desire has been lifted.
Speaker 3:A lot of people struggling with drug addiction. They can say from me personally, I could stay clean for a couple of weeks, a couple of months, but I would always go back because it would be the desire that I've been able to fight off. Now, with God in my life, he has given me the power to continue to turn from that sin and not put that kind of garbage into my body. And I have no desire. There's no thought about it, there's no fantasizing about it, there's no dreaming about it. I just am not interested. It's like a bad telemarketing calling Hello, no, not interested, thank you, and hang up. So there's just no interest. I've been completely delivered from the desire or the drive or the fascination with it. The last thing Jesus Christ said on the cross was it is finished, and I believe that applies to my situation. I mean it is finished.
Speaker 2:So tell us about the penalty, the human penalty, that you paid for the things that you did, that were we'll just use the word illegal- Well, sure?
Speaker 3:no, they were illegal. You know I mean starting in. Well, I've been in and out of county jail so many times I can't possibly count it on my fingers or toes but I did state time in the state of Nevada back in 2000. And then I've done two federal bids in addition to that. After I got out of the state bid in 2004, I was locked up, got out in 2010.
Speaker 3:I've been locked up in my 20s, my 30s and my 40s, so it was a kind of a generational thing for me of being incarcerated. You know, at the end of the day I was so hopeless and I felt no drive to do anything else other than to continue to turn back to the same old ways. And quite frankly, I mean, as we know, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and again and expecting different results. So to continue to go back to being narcotics trafficking and expecting that I'm not going to be caught this time. I know what I did wrong last time and you know it's just, it's all living a lie and so I continued to go back to prison. So I think this last time that I was in federal prison, god clearly had enough, because she did not create me to become a narcotics trafficker. That's not why he put me on this earth and he came into my life in a very dramatic fashion, to get my attention. And he got just that.
Speaker 3:And tell me about that you know well, I'm at a point right now where you know, you know how Jesus says to the disciples. You know, listen, if you want to turn and walk away, you can go. And they looked at him and they said but to whom would we go? That's kind of where I'm at.
Speaker 3:I'm at a point in my life where I'm asking but where would I go if I turn from my Christian beliefs to where would I go? I have nothing to turn back to, tony. I mean I have lost everything in my life on multiple occasions houses, cars, materialistic goods, power, control and at this point, not only do I not know to whom would I go, but I wouldn't want anything else. I mean, having Jesus in my life has been life saving for me, literally on more than one occasion. And so to whom would I go? That there is nothing to turn back to? There's nothing to go back to, or I can do is continue facing forward and keep on walking with the love of Christ in my life, and for me that's more than fulfilling and it's more than enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you mentioned that Christ came to you in a dramatic way. Do you feel comfortable talking about that?
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:How did he approach you? How did, how did he show his love down on you, so real that it it caused you to you know, accept him as savior and turn your life all the way around?
Speaker 3:Well, I was a non-believer and I was getting ready to be sentenced in the federal court system. I had paid my attorney over a hundred thousand dollars cash and he had struck a deal with the prosecutor that we were to agree to 132 months, which is 11 years, in federal prison. That was the agreement that was reached the morning of my sentencing. They, what they do, is they put you downstairs in what's called the bullpen before you go into the courtroom. It's just, it's a holding cell and there's, you know, writings all over the walls and people, you know, have all kinds of doodles and graffiti and, you know, gang signs on the walls. And so I was sitting in this cell and I'm waiting, and they came in and they brought me up into the courtroom and for some reason I had now, leading up to this, I had been praying to the God of the goddess right, the son of the moon, my, my, my, heavenly, you know, team to protect me because I was still pagan. So there was a very strange calm that came over me as I walked into this courtroom and as I walked into the main courtroom, I could almost see the airwaves and I can't explain that in the natural because it just doesn't make sense. But basically, when I walked into the courtroom the air was wiggly and it just looked very animated. It was, it was a supernatural act going on. I think clearly was of God, okay, because you can't explain it in the natural. So I sat down and, again, we had agreed to 132 months, which was 11 years. The judge came, comes in and she, you know, goes to her thing and she asked the process. The prosecutor presented the case. He got up and said basically nothing, which was a little strange. He talked about how, you know, it looks like I was trying to change my life and he was almost defending me, which is not his job. So it's my understanding now that God completely took over the courtroom and he sat down and then they asked my lawyer to stand up and present his side of the case and and my lawyer stands up and explains to the court how, what a nice guy I am and how I used to stop by his office and you know, bring donuts once a week and I'm like this is what I paid you to talk about. So he sits down and the judge says listen, I don't know where we're gonna go with this, but, mr Klein, I'm sentencing you to 88 months. I Look at my lawyer and he just looks at me with a dumbfounded look on his face like I don't know. So clearly this entire situation was of God. Essentially, the judge gave me an illegal sentence if I had a mandatory minimum. That's it. I had a mandatory minimum of 120 months. We agreed to 132 months. I got sentenced to 88 months. That's not real, nor could it have happened, but it did happen. So this is one of those situations where you just say, but God, because that's all that it could have been.
Speaker 3:Not only did the prosecutor not stand up and object to any of this. My lawyer looked at me with a look like I have no clue what's going on, but let's just go with it. And it was just the most strange, supernatural thing I've ever experienced in my entire life. So we get up, I shake my lawyer's hand and I go down into the holding cell where they had left me before the final hearing, and I went over to use the restroom and I was just. I was completely dumbfounded myself. I'm like what did she just sentence me to? She couldn't have done that, but she did and nobody said anything. And what's going on? I mean, but again I still had this complete peace and calm about me. That was just insane, because when you're facing that kind of time I would have thought I would have been nervous going into the courtroom when I was just completely at peace. It was just, it was clearly of God.
Speaker 3:So I'm go go use the restroom and I look up on the wall and written on pencil Right there and I level it says repentance, making the decision to turn from sin and Turn toward the one true God. And it was screaming at me. Okay, there's all kinds of other stuff right on the wall. So I'm staring at this right in my face. I'm like, wait a second. I had already known that something strange has happened, didn't know how to explain it, and now I'm starting to saying that just says repentance, making the decision to turn from sin and turn toward the one true God. So this gave me something to think about.
Speaker 3:So I go back to my Cell and then they came and picked me up and told me back to the county jail, which was the mom of county jail and mom of county New Jersey, and I was. I was a porter on the on the chair, which means I was one of the people to clean that night. So I had a single cell. We were given individual cells if we were on the, if we were porters. So that night I'm up in my cell and I'm like I'm kind of like wrestling, you know, having a conversation with God, and I'm like I'm having a conversation with someone. I'm saying what was this all about? Like this, I was just completely dumbfounded. I didn't know what, what to do with everything that had happened that day and all of a sudden, about 11 o'clock at night, out of nowhere, I don't know what, hit me. I got down on my knees at the end of my bunk and I said alright, here's the deal. God, heavenly Father, jesus Christ, whatever you want me to call you, take my will, take my life and show me how to live, because it's my third time in prison for the same thing. I clearly do not know how to live life. So show me. And I got in my bed and expected there to be lightning, thunderbolts, something going on, and nothing happened. I said that's what I figured and I went to sleep.
Speaker 3:By 45 am. The next morning I was awoken and my body was surrounded in a warm white light and what had happened was my flesh and my soul, which is my mind, will and my emotions and my spirit, all separated from each other. And my soul kind of went up in the corner looking down on what was going on. And the hand came out of nowhere. And when I say a hand, I mean this all happened in the spiritual realm, which means trying to explain it in the natural realm. It's a little difficult for me, but a hand came out and reached out toward me and said Son, here's the deal. You have not been happy with the first 45 years of your life. I'm, neither have I, so I'm gonna give you a do over. And yes, god said to me, I'm going to give you a do over, in those exact words If you agree, you will be born again and we're gonna do this all over again, but we're gonna do it my way this time. Is that what you want to do? And I just remember hearing myself thinking aloud yes, daddy, but let's do this, take me, let's do this. And he reached down and took the spirit out of my body and and basically through that one away, and put a new spirit in my body, as well as a heart that was made of gold, a nice fresh heart. And then my soul came down and joined the rest of my body and I woke up and Again I had this unique, strange calm piece about me and I wasn't sure what just happened.
Speaker 3:But I knew that something happened, something very dramatic and supernatural. And so I Got up and I started walking around and I says you know, I don't feel like myself anymore. And I really didn't. And I remembered back to God saying you will be born again. And I'm like so I'm a born again pagan. What am I? What does this mean? Because I had no idea what that meant. Okay, this is how far and detached I was from Any kind of true belief, that I had no idea what he was talking about.
Speaker 3:So there's a christian guy down the way and I went. I said, paul, I hadn't experienced this morning I'm not sure how to explain it what is this? Born again? And he goes oh, you're a christian. I, what a christian. Why would I be a christian? For what reason? But as it ends up that you know, god had put a new spirit in me and and that's kind of what it was.
Speaker 3:So I said to myself well, do me a favor. And I didn't know where this came from. I said you have any books or anything I can read? And he handed me a purpose-driven life by Rick Warren. And he handed me a Bible and he said these are for you. And I took him back to my cell and devoured both of them over the next.
Speaker 3:I mean, well, the Bible hadn't devoured, but purpose-driven life I couldn't put down and I was just everything gauge and everything that I was reading and learning and I couldn't get. I was, I was hungry for more knowledge, I wanted to understand what, what has happened to me, and when it comes to in the natural, I just I didn't feel like myself anymore. So something Clearly happened that changed who I was and when we, if we look to 2nd Corinthians 5, 17, you know, when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are a whole new creation. And that's exactly what happened to me. I, and to this day I am just.
Speaker 3:I'm not the same man that I used to be and there's behaviors and there's thoughts and there's all kinds of things that don't match up with who I was before this experience. So God had to come into my life in a very supernatural way to get my attention and he certainly got just that and he has held it and I'm not going to turn away from it. It's something that I can't possibly Explain in the natural, that you know how amazing Life is now and it's. I still have trials and tribulations, but he's working with me, with all that, he's by my side, who lives inside of me. So All these things can all. The more I stay walking in the spiritual, the easier life gets, even though it can still be complicated at times.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of what I went through and what's so interesting to me is that you, you had this amazing experience, but you didn't even really have context for the transformation that it happened. You hadn't been surrounded by people.
Speaker 3:Correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this is why I ran to this Christian guy in a chair and I said what just happened to me? What is this born again? Oh, because I had no idea what really. I knew something happened, but I didn't know what. And now, of course, you know God has given me revelation that this was all him and this is why he had to handle. You know, god deals with everyone differently. God had to deal with me in a very supernatural, powerful way. Not everyone has Damascus or disappearance, that it really doesn't matter. God is in our lives all the same. But he had to give me that experience for me to Really stop, take a breath and say yeah, you're real, you're the real deal and you shared with me that your curiosity went beyond just, you know, reading books and such.
Speaker 2:You actually enrolled in seminary.
Speaker 3:Yeah, when I got to federal prison After this experience, the first thing I did the next day, after the 5 am Experience, I got on the phone to my mom and I called my mom. I just again I felt like a change man and now I wanted to do something productive and proactive in my life. I was tired of Spiling down the same drain over and over and I called my mother. I said, mom, when I get to federal prison, can I go to college? Can you help me pay for this? Can we get me enrolled in college and I'll take some drugs? I'm got some, you know, drug counselor courses and maybe when I come home I can be a drug counselor and help other people that have struggled with some of the similar things that I struggled with. And and she said, yeah, baby, absolutely. And she was very proud to hear that I was looking to do something different, you know. But I had known. I mean, after this experience, again I felt like a completely changed man. So now I might. My desires were to do something different than what I had been doing. So I got to federal prison and I started looking into colleges and God, little by little, kept nudging me in a different direction, and he eventually brought me into seminary. I enrolled in seminary, I got my associate's degree in pastoral ministry, and then I went from there to get my bachelor's degree.
Speaker 3:I went into prison with a GED, and I came out with a bachelor's degree all in about five years. So when I tell you that I spent 10 to 14 hours a day in my studies, I really yeah, I dove in headfirst and I couldn't get away from it. Now, the other thing, though, is that I don't really have I have ADHD, so I don't really have the power to do that on my own. So for me to sit down at a desk for 12 to 14 hours a day doing studies, that the power of God was present in my life, because that's not something I could do on my own. And I did it every day, almost six, seven, often, six, seven days a week, and I got my a degree, I think, in nine months, and then I took another year to get a bachelor's degree. So four years of degrees I squeeze, I squeeze into, you know, a year and seven months or so, yeah, and I finished with really strong grades.
Speaker 3:It was, it was something that really shocked me. It really was clearly of God, because it's not something I would have had the power to do, and I'm not that smart. I'll be honest with you the grades that I got were phenomenal and, although I put a lot of effort into it, that was all God. You know I was turning in papers that were, you know, typewritten two-sided, you know, 87 pages. That's. That's hours and hours, hours of work, and I don't have the patience for that. So it clearly was all God doing the work, wow.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's awesome. And so you dug as deep into understanding this new faith as you did, and maybe even deeper in to paganism. You got it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. So within the course of those four, five years, you obviously were not only a different person, but you also were prepared to be in ministry. And so now take us to the time where you were ready to get out. You know that time was there and what. What was going through your head as your time in prison was up and it was time for you to be deployed into this new world that God's called you into.
Speaker 3:I Was very excited to see what God had planned for me. I mean, I can tell you this, my last three years in federal prison, they assigned me as a mentor and I had been given, when I tell you the the I'm not saying this in a judgmental way, but they literally Handed me the bottom of the barrel, the lowest of the low People that had struggled for years with child pornography and all kinds of different sin. They gave me, they assigned really the toughest, I guess, cases to me as a mentor for my last three years and I learned and clearly this was, you know God, preparing me for ministry, right. So I didn't really know it at the time, but I was seeing it play out. You know, little by little, these guys that came into my life, a lot of these guys just wanted someone who would listen to them. You know, they needed someone to talk to, and so learning to listen was paramount for me, because I've always been a real extroverted talker, you know, and so listening to other people has always been a challenge for me, and so God put me in a position where I needed to listen, because if I'm gonna mention these guys, I need to listen to what they're going through and do more listening than talking, which was completely the opposite of what I was used to.
Speaker 3:So I realized that as these years played out and these different people were being put in my hand to try and care for, to try and mentor, to try and help give positive direction to, to try and keep encouraged, and they were getting more and more challenging as time went on and I kind of felt like they did that intentionally, just to help me right, because I think the mentor-mentee relationship both parties benefit from that relationship and a lot of people just think that the mentee is the one who's benefiting but the mentor is learning. I mean, I was able to grasp things that I've never even either A had an interest in or B really thought I was going to go near. But so many things came to light in this mentoring situation for me during the last three years. But anyway, so that was. You know God, I don't believe God. You know, we know that God does not call the equip, that he equips the called, and so for the last three years he was equipping me to go into ministry when I came home.
Speaker 3:So I started really focusing on what was going on around me and being really cognizant of everything that I had done, you know, and being forgiven for all my past transgressions was a hard thing for me to accept, because I've done a lot and I've been through a lot. And once I finally found comfort in that, I found that now I you know, rick Warren, I think, put it best when it comes to humility. You know, humility is not thinking less of yourself, it is simply thinking of yourself less. And once I was able to really grasp and take hold of that, I was able to instill humility into my life, because I always thought, you know, being humble means, you know, everyone's much more important than you are and you don't matter. And that's not what it is.
Speaker 3:And again, I believe Rick Warren put it best, and put it in a way that I was able to absorb it and now really kind of integrated into my life. And humility is just finding time for other people. You know, I've always been so self-absorbed my entire life and when I finally took the time to kind of give myself a break and focus on other people, there's some amazing growth that came with that and continues to come with that, and it's a blessing to me and it's something that helps me grow without it being about me. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:It really does. It really does, and you know you're skipping so much of your story and you and I have spent some significant time together, but I think what's very clear is that you had lived a life completely apart from God, full of sin and selfishness and egotism and all of the things that can attract us, especially as men, to be powerful and in control of our world. And then God did something amazing. He came to you in a way that you could not deny that it had occurred, that you had interfaced and met with the God of all creation. You didn't have context, but you had a very clear sense of you are not the same person that you were before, and I think all of us that are believers can relate to that moment.
Speaker 2:We can relate to the moment where Christ came in, where we accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior and we began to see life through a different set of lenses. We didn't have the same desires, we didn't have the same passions. Things just shifted in us, no matter what age we were when we accepted Christ. We can all understand, especially as we mature in Christ, how much stronger that is. So talk to me just a minute about as you've matured in your faith. You were talking about your mentoring ministry in the prisons. You were obviously connected with somebody in prison who helped also disciple you. Is that true?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. You know the head chaplain spent countless hours helping to disciple me and helping me to understand what I was going through and bring clarity. In fact I still talk to him on the phone pretty much about once a week, for I think between half an hour to an hour. We stay in touch, he told me before I left. He says I cannot wait to see your ministry come to life. You need to stay in touch with me and let me know what's going on with it, and he's very excited to see the growth that's going on.
Speaker 3:You know I recently joined a Kairos prison ministry which is an amazing organization, and you know I couldn't wait to get out of prison. I'll never forget the first day I went with Kairos back into prison. I could not wait to get in that gate. I mean, I was thrilled to death to be going back into prison, which doesn't make sense in the natural, but in the spiritual I knew that I was going in to bring the word of Christ and help see lives changed. Or at least you know, plant seeds and the Holy Spirit could cultivate and change those lives. And so the excitement of going back into prison was very.
Speaker 3:What's the word I'm looking for? It was very. It just didn't feel real. It was very outside of what would feel comfortable, but I literally couldn't wait to get back in and now I'm very excited for the next mission trip that we'll be going back on.
Speaker 3:But I saw lives changed, you know, and even during the mentoring process I saw other lives changed and there's something about seeing right in front of your eyes other people's lives being changed and knowing that. You know, even though you only played a very small part because lives can only be changed by the Holy Spirit, I believe, when it comes to people becoming born again but knowing that you were able to help plant a seed or help raise some understanding to someone else to bring them just a little bit closer to Christ, even it's just a little bit closer. You know, I'm in a position now where I cannot stop telling people about Jesus Christ, because people need to know I'm in a very broken world and I can't rest until I know that I've talked to people every day about Jesus and knowing that I've been maybe at least Peter curiosity about getting to know God, because life is taken on a whole new meaning.
Speaker 2:It's amazing, brother. You know we're so proud of refreshing. We're just so proud of who you are and who's you are, brett, I'm going to throw kind of a. Hopefully this is not too much of a curve ball, but you know. Moving to application for the folks that are listening, can you highlight just a few steps in your discipleship process that you think everyone needs to know about relative to ensuring that they are being properly discipled?
Speaker 3:Sure, Well for one. I can't state this with enough clarity Not everyone is called to go to seminary. We do not have to go to seminary to be a good Christian man. What's important is your relationship, and that was the other thing that I had time to do while I was in federal prison was build a strong relationship, and more important than these pieces of paper hanging up on my wall is the relationship and the strength of that relationship and the intimacy of that relationship in spending time with God. That is paramount to anything. So not everyone is called to go to seminary and again, I talk about it very, very lightly because it's not for everybody and God doesn't call everyone to do it.
Speaker 3:But whatever reason, he wanted me to go and I went, because remaining obedient is really the key for me. The more I surrender and the more that I remain obedient to the Holy Spirit's guiding, god tells me in his word that he will be a lamp to my feet and a light to my path, and all I have to do is just listen and do things. Again, I made a deal with God he will be born again. I'm going to give you a do over, but we're going to do it my way this time and I agreed to that. So, in holding up my end of the agreement, I followed the Holy Spirit and I listened to what he's telling me and I try and obey as much of this often as possible, knowing that the outcome is going to be something way beyond anything I could ever do on my own. All right.
Speaker 2:So I caught two things right being obedient and being in relationship Meaning being in prayer, reading scripture, understanding who you are in Christ right, so being obedient to him, taking those first steps of obedience are so critical in the discipleship process. What's the next thing that you think is important?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, during my mentoring process for people, I had a lot of guys ask me you know, how do I know what God wants me to do? Listen, he gives it to us plain and clear in his word. If you do not spend time in the word, you may not. I mean, yes, through the Holy Spirit, you can pray on it, you can stay in the word. You know, you can. You know, follow the Holy Spirit. That's how you find out what God's purpose is. That's how I found out what God's purpose was for my life, and it continues to play out that way. You know, being in fellowship with other Christian brothers and or sisters is important.
Speaker 3:I think going to church is important the actual building because that's where fellowship happens. You know, I'm part of two small groups within our church and that's important to me. It gives me an opportunity to be around people who have more spiritual growth than I have. And being around, you know, look. You know I got saved November 16, 2018 at 5.45 in the morning.
Speaker 3:I need to be around people that have been saved for longer than that and know Jesus for many more years than that, to help me debate with myself about everything that I'm doing and if it's correct, you know. So being around stronger I mean he's a word stronger Christians, but people that have been in a spiritual relationship longer than I have with Jesus is important because they cannot provide guidance, you know, and it's important to be able to go to people like elders in the church and ask questions and seek guidance, because you don't know it all and I don't know it all, and oftentimes you have questions that come up that you need to, you know, to your guidance and answers to. So I think fellowship is very important.
Speaker 3:Yeah so you brought up a really important thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you did. So we've got take simple acts of obedience, be in fellowship with God through prayer and reading his word, be in fellowship with other believers who have greater maturity than yourselves, and then be in the church so that you can have that interaction with others and have an impact. And there's so many other things that we could bring up, but the key is you've got to do the simple things first. Right, we could. It's like saying, well, God hasn't given me the whole plan, so therefore I can't do anything. That's the opposite of the way it works, right. So it's like saying I'm not going to.
Speaker 3:I mean, it was little baby steps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for most people it is right you can't. I mean, the CEO of a company didn't start out as a CEO, right? Maybe they started out as an accountant or something else at a lower level. You have to perform well in the functions that God gives you, and I've told people for many years. All you can do is walk through the open doors that God opens for you and let Him lead you.
Speaker 2:And there's nothing magical or mystical about just following His lead. Do the things that God is already doing around you. As he gives you opportunity, you just follow it's. If there's something that can be done and you have the ability to do it and it's the right thing to do, it's probably not the wrong thing to do, right, but you'll have a clear sense of whether or not you should continue it. Because you're in relationship with Him, he'll give you a peace, or no peace, to continue it. We say all the time at our church just plug in. You're not signing on for a life sentence, right? If you want to try something, try a ministry. If it's not your thing, try something else. But when it comes to the way we grow and we mature in our faith, it's about intentionality, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have to be, totally intentional, and it is our individual responsibility to be intentional about our faith as much as it is our responsibility to have a good relationship with our parents and with our spouse and with our best friends. It is a two-way street, but it's intentional. Relationships don't stay healthy on accident. They stay healthy on purpose.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and I also think that if we're not being intentional about things, then we're still walking around with our lives closed in the darkness because we're not focused on what it is that we're called to do.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and so some closing thoughts for today. Brett, this has been awesome. You and I could talk for three more hours and I think people would still find it interesting. But let's spread this out. Maybe have you back on another topic another day. But what final challenges or a challenge? Maybe would you leave the listener with today.
Speaker 3:I would just say that if God is calling you to do something, don't question God, just do it.
Speaker 3:You know, god called me into getting involved in my own ministry. He called me to steward over a ministry called scrambled egg ministries and currently it's operating as a prison ministry through just newsletters that I send in every month. I send in probably 40 newsletters and prisoners across the country right now and it really is just encouraging them to build a strong, deep relationship with their Lord and Savior, jesus Christ, and I can't tell you how many letters I get back just confirming that this was God's idea, because I'm seeing amazing growth and gratitude in people for the encouragement that I'm able to provide through God. So if God is calling you and wants to use you, he can, and it doesn't matter where you've been or what you thought you should do in your life. If God is calling upon your life and you allow him to use you, I can promise you life will never look the same, ever again, and it's going to be something above and beyond anything you could ever imagine.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. Well, if you'd like to learn more about Brett, you can definitely email him at. I believe it's. Is it B Cline, or is it?
Speaker 3:Brett.
Speaker 2:B Cline.
Speaker 3:B.
Speaker 2:Cline B K L E I N at scramble egg ministries scramble, scramble egg ministriescom or org. I'm going off memory here, noorg.
Speaker 3:Right to the website, scramble egg ministriesorg and hit contact us and I'll get back to you as soon as I get your message.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's the way to do it. Connect with him, see if there's ways that you can plug into the ministry that he's involved in, and if you're interested in the chai rest ministry, you'd also be a great advocate to help you connect with that as well. And I want to thank you, brett, for sharing today and there's so much more that we could unpack but the key here is I'm so thankful that you have answered the call of Christ and that you have decided to walk along with me and with so many of us right here At restoration, and you really make a difference where you are, and so thank you for that.
Speaker 1:So today, I want to thank you yes thank you.
Speaker 2:I want to just thank you guys for listening. Remember to share and like this so that other folks can hear the message and hear the important things that are shared on these podcasts. And again we want to thank you and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us today on All the Kingsman. Please share, subscribe and like the podcast anytime you can. To contact Pastor Tony, email Tony at myRptorg. He would love to connect with you On behalf of Pastor Tony and all of us at Restoration Place. Have a great week and we will see you next time.
